... as UK lost in Cal's first 3 seasons combined.
That's wild.
That's wild.
This team has lost as many games ...
- Thread starter STL_Cat
- Start date
BS, piss poor Coaching and nothing else
Honestly if our record was reversed we’d be pissed.
He was very successful when getting elite/ transcendent players AND having very solid veterans (who wouldn’t be tho?). Neither of those are happening anymore which is why you’ve seen the worst season in the history of Kentucky basketball and the ho hum results compared to 2009-2015.
Interesting..... Who was this alleged transcendent player on the 2010-2011 team?
Brandon Knight, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones. That was an incredibly talented freshman trio.
Throw in the experience of Liggins, Harrelson, Miller, that team was loaded at 1-6 (which is exactly how Cal likes his roster). And we didn’t even have Kanter eligible.
Lol, good? Yes! Transcendent? No! None of those 3 guys are even still in the league today.
None of those experienced guys were transcendent either. Jorts had a good 2nd half of the season. Miller was hot and cold all year and Liggins peaked late in the season.
So again, which player was transcendent? Because according to the post I replied to, Cal only wins with transcendent talent.
Talent isn’t measured only by league success. DLamb holds the 3 pt NCAA tourney record for Kentucky that will never be broken.
His type of talent is much more rare and useful at the college level than the verticals and athleticism that keep you in the league.
Lol, so you are saying you think Doron Lamb was a transcendent player, mostly because he made 3's? You must use the term transcendent very loosely.
It is interesting considering the NBA puts a huge emphasis on 3pt shooting, but such a transcendent player and shooter couldn't make there.
It goes both ways. Herro shot like 13% for college tourney games, but you’d call him more talented than DLamb for his league success. Why couldn’t he do that in college if the league is so much more talented?
You really must be a Cal first fan if all you measure UK players by is their league success lol.
Lol, who said anything about Herro being more talented or anything about the league being the definer?
I am asking who was this alleged transcendent talent on the 2010-2011 team? So far, you are the only one who replied and you claimed Doron Lamb. I am asking what makes him transcendent? Being a good shooter doesn't make someone a transcendent player. Hell, using that measure, Allen should be considered transcendent. Also, a transcendent talent would likely be a star at any level.
I measure players by many standards. However, you have even stated your emphasis is on shooting.
That team had no transcendent players on it. Fun team the way they came together. They were coached and developed really well. That’s not a very popular opinion but it’s true.
2011 finished strong but lost 7 road games, 9 overall, finished out of the top 10, and was 10-6 in the SEC. UK has been the greatest program ever because of season long excellence, not JUST 2-3 weeks in March.
uh that 2011 team didnt have a transcendent player and thats why they lost a lot of games, then finally got it together in march and made an incredible run. Antigua and Payne are elite assistants ....... god bless them that they helped us overcome Cal's coaching.
I meditated on this transcendent player thought and ended up listening to nirvana.
I never said that anyone was a transcendent talent/player, because honestly the concept is a bit overrated. Even our most “transcendent” player to most in AD had a loaded team around him that complimented him perfectly and we still did not win that title with ease.
If anything I would say that 2010-2011 freshman trio was certainly unique (dare I say transcendent
) in their combination of talent/skills and how they complimented each other so well. I’m not sure Cal or anyone else has had a freshman trio I’d put above them. Wall/Bled/Cousins lacked an elite shooter, Fox/Monk/Bam would have an argument.
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Look at Duke. K embraced the one and done and it's caught up to him.
Lol, then what was your intial reply about? Because that is the argument I was replying to. Frank claimed Cal can only win and be successful with the "transcendent" talent he got his first 5 years. My question was who was transcendent on the first F4 team Cal had here. You then replied with Lamb and mentioned Jorts, Miller Jones, Liggins. Knight was by far the best player on the team and he was far from transcendent.I never said that anyone was a transcendent talent/player, because honestly the concept is a bit overrated. Even our most “transcendent” player to most in AD had a loaded team around him that complimented him perfectly and we still did not win that title with ease.
If anything I would say that freshman trio was certainly unique (dare I say transcendent
AD and Co. won that title pretty easily. It was never really in doubt.
The 2011-2012 group was certainly unique and s special group, AD is/was certainly a transcendent talent. Everyone else on that team was just really good.
Don’t even try. Like to trying to talk to a brick wall. They are fixated on what happened 10 years ago.
My point was that collectively that 2011 freshman trio was definitely as “transcendent” collectively as any I’ve seen. And since Frank said players not player, the point is valid.
And the insistence to focus on individual talent isn’t really appropriate, seeing as it’s a team sport. You take any player 1-5 away on that 2012 team and sub in a player from this team and we lose, not just AD.
That 2012 team did win impressively but had to come up clutch for sure as well, the Indiana game FT shooting was arguably the best in UK history for a team that wasn’t exactly known for it (MKG went 10 for 10). Teague also was very clutch from 3, especially in the title game which was closer than it should have been.
Lol, you are making no damn sense.
No one is arguing that the 2011 freshman were very good. I think we all agree they were. Davis was the transcendent player, he would make any team look good. Take him away and the others just look like really good players.
Frank's statement was that Cal couldn't win without having transcendent players on his team. However, that logic is easily negated by the fact 2010-2011 had no transcendent players on it. You harping about the year after doesn't change that. Nor does it really have anything to do with the argument.
I disagree, you could easily replace Jackson with MKG and still be hella good. Mintz could have played on that team as well.
We led by double digits most of the title game. KU made a late run when it was all but over. We beat IU pretty handily as well. It was a double digit win, iirc. Our closest game was against UL in the F4.
Im talking about the 2010-2011 freshman trio, not the 2011-2012 one . The one I originally mentioned (Knight/Jones/Lamb), try to keep up. I’ve said the same thing to you a few times, you’d think you could let it sink in by now.
I think you severely underrate how critical MKG was to that 2012 season in countless ways, but first of all to me he was the team chemistry master. We are still trying to recreate his breakfast club almost 10 years later.
The majority of Jackson’s contribution right now is blocking shots, you really think he adds anything to the 2012 team lol? Much less enough to offset enough of MKGs loss, that’s laughable. With his ability to make quick dumb fouls he’d be best substituted for Eloy Vargas.
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We got 2 seasons from Jones and Lamb.
What are the chances we would get 2 seasons from guys who were as good as them as freshman today?
What are the chances we would get 2 seasons from guys who were as good as them as freshman today?
And they came back because of the looming NBA lockout, a lot of dumb luck.
No one gives an ish about the league. This is college.
Lamb was the best distance shooter in the history of the best college program in the history of college programs. Jones was a man among boys even after he got to your league, just had social issues off the court. Knight was two steps slower than Wall with a much better shot. Liggins was one of the best players ever at any position on the defensive side of the ball. Harrellson that year had fewer points than Bam but more rebounds. We have had about the number of heavy hitters in the past six years as we had on that one team at one time. More but not much more. So yeah compared to what we’re eating lately they were transcendent. You fished them out as the least transcendent team of Cal’s early years (trying to avoid saying Nerlens wasn’t transcendent, I suspect) and they were still transcendent, from where we’re sitting. It’s not your fault. It’s just where we’re sitting.
Now imagine we had that roster today and today’s roster back in 2010-11 and you asked that same question: who on that team was transcendent? Brooks? Jackson? In that world you’d have had a danged argument. But you don’t today. It’s no flaw in your rhetorical skills. It’s only that you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Lol, you keep saying the freshman from 2011. Knight, Jones and Lamb weren't freshman in 2011. LMAO, I can't keep up when you obviously are saying incorrect ****.
None of those guys in the 2010 freshman class were transcendent alone or together. That team struggled all season long until just before the SEC tournament. They were a 4 seed after winning the SEC for goodness sake. It is just a dumb take to try to claim they were transcendent in any away. Lol, what do you consider transcendent about that?
MKG was good, but he wasn't putting up record breaking numbers. Jackson either equals ot exceeds most of MKG stats, aside from rebounds.
I can’t believe you’re standing behind your comparison of MKG to Jackson. And straight lying or can’t read stats either. MKG exceeds or equals in almost every stat except blocks per game. Per 40 he beats MKG on rebounds so you can’t be saying those stats.
Obviously they were freshman in the spring of 2011, don’t be obtuse.
That team made a final four and ended the season on a 10 game win streak including 6 ranked opponents. Losing by 1 pt to the eventual champ. The first final four in the longest drought in school history and overcame their star recruit being benched inexplicably by the NCAA.
Honestly how could any UK fan downplay that team or MKG - why, to win an internet argument? Take a step back from the keyboard.
16'17'19,20(was well on its way) were all equivalent to 10,11,14
So really you are saying those years font compare to the 12 and 15 teams.
I'd say that's true for about every team in america. 2 of the 3 best uk teams in 70 years
yes but he sure as hell has not recruited anywhere near the level as the first 5 or 6 years
big differences between top 10 talent and top 30.
when you depend on freshmen.
Even in 2012, the 2nd half of the title game was poorly coached .. we were up by as many as 18 points and running them off the court, until he put the breaks on and let them back in the game.
Lol, per 40 Jackson literally beats him in every category except assist and 3pt%. Literally every damn one. Jackson also has higher FG% and is almost identical FT shooter. Not only would he outscore MKG per 40, he would also avg more steals and less turnovers. So, yes, as much as I loved MKG, Jackson is someone who could fill that role as far as stats are concerned. Not to mention how much more difficult it would have been to score against them with Jackson, Davis and Jones. Are you just trying to throw **** at the wall now to see what hopefully sticks?
They weren’t the incoming freshman class in the spring of 2011. It’s okay to admit you made a blunder man. It happens. You got worked up and started typing quicker than you were thinking, and that led you to make an honest mistake. It’s okay.
Yes, that team ended up very good because they were coached over the course of the season to improve. They were one of my favorites. None of that changes the fact there was no transcendent player on that team.
Being honest isn’t downplaying them. We are just pointing out the flaw in the logic that Cal requires a transcendent talent to compete. Big difference. You seem to be taking this very personally. Take a step back, collect yourself and come back better and stronger. It’s all going to be okay.
I guess it's the fans fault.
As a side note this team has about the same amount of talent, if not more, than BCG had in the 2008-09 season and they finished 22-14.
As a side note this team has about the same amount of talent, if not more, than BCG had in the 2008-09 season and they finished 22-14.
Yea cause the way a ball bounces on the last 2nd shot makes a huge difference
MKG was the man, stats don’t matter, if we needed a lockdown defender, a man rebound, or even a clutch three, MKG was clutch.