Tubby-like since 2016
- Thread starter Porky Pigskin33
- Start date
I been saying the same thing. Only difference is that Cal has done it with way better talent than Tubby had.
First, I'm not calling for Cal's head. And secondly, nobody has disputed that Cal elevated the program and enjoyed an amazing run from '10-'15.
However, during the past 4.5 seasons UK basketball has felt like it's broken. He has whiffed on many high-profile recruits and sticks to a system that doesn't maximize his players' athleticism. Mass exoduses leave the program with unbalanced rosters (the '16 team had a great backcourt but average front court; the '19 team had a great front court but average backcourt).
Something is going to have to change. The "we're young" excuse doesn't fly with me because we're young every year BY DESIGN.
And during this Final Four drought, the 'Cats have been eliminated by Tom Crean (who has been continually mocked on this board throughout the years for his coaching skills, or lack thereof), dropped what was essentially a home game against a 25-12 Kansas State team coached by freaking Bruce Weber, and lost to an undermanned Auburn team playing without its best rebounder and defender.
As losses to unranked teams continue piling up, Cal is going to continue taking more and more heat. As he should.
Not sure if anyone has fact checked this, but these are disturbing numbers if Tubby is the "Low Bar" many claim him to be.
Goodness that is depressing...reminds me more of Joe B. Hall's final years than Tubby's though.
I sure hope Cal's "needle moving" days aren't behind him.
The naysayers were screaming for Holtmann after he beat UK, but then he lost four straight games and has been past a Sweet 16 only one time in his career. Doesn’t sound like an ideal candidate to me.
cal beats Louisville every year. That carries a lot of weight
The naysayers were screaming for Holtmann after he beat UK, but then he lost four straight games and has been past a Sweet 16 only one time in his career. Doesn’t sound like an ideal candidate to me.
I like CH but that is my thing...he hasn't really proven anything.
I bet Tubby will be ticked if he ever finds out! He'll be like: "That's not fair, I got robbed!" LMAO
Those were 2 of Tubby's three best teams during his time at UK....not to mention I would like to see where that info is coming from...very detailed.
I thi k the best comparison between the two eras is the stubbornness. Tubby refused to can his assistants, Cal refuses to change his philosophy.
OAD does not work anymore. Im not going to sit here and delude myself like some of our fans have that its OK to watch 3 or 4 months of bad basketball and guys learning the collegiate basics because they finally get it come end of February and rattle off 3 or 4 games.
If you take care of business all season like Kentucky is supposed to, you should theoretically have a good seed and be able to cakewalk the first two games.
Im sorry, for me, the first weekend of the tournament is taken for granted as wins and anything less is unnacceptable by our standards. Which mean we are talking about 2 potential weekends...that excuses a season of poor basketball and inexplicable losses? To a rational person, it does not.
This is the stuff that pisses me off. Having to sit here and argue with these koolaid drinking pumpers who point to the tournament and March being the difference maker. Do these fools not remember who we lost to and how? Im supposed to write off bad losses to Evansville and South Carolina in hopes of watching us choke against K State with a wide open bracket or IU in the second freaking game?
"Buuut derp derp IU was a 4 seed and UK was a 5. We shouldnt have had to play them that early derp derp."
No ****. Thats why you have to win take it for granted games like the one we inexcusably dropped last night. So you win your conference a d get a good seed. Thats why fans like me are ticked off.
No one complains about the UNC last second Luke Maye loss because it was two good teams laying it on the line. Having a good team lose to inferior opponents at inopportune times is not acceptable at this program.
Exactly. I don’t get why people can’t realize this. He’s on a downward spiral and it’s very apparent.
So Cal has been in a damn decline since his last final four. It’s ok to admit, because it’s very true.
I have felt this way for the past three years. Two years ago it was really hard to watch most of the year as almost every player was an inexperienced freshman. So frustrating watching AAU ball, game after game, that omits all of the basic fundamentals of the game (at least for me it is).
I am enjoying this year much more as it has been a delight to see Hagans and Richards improve so much. But I want to see this level of experience as the minimum, every year and for it to not be the exception. Cal has proven he can get players to the NBA after one, two or three years so why not change the recipe a little so that's it's about the program more. Then we wouldn't have to rely on super-elite level freshmen and experienced grad transfers every year. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'm just a geek engineer fan that knows nothing about coaching CBB!
This post makes no sense. UK has been in the top 2 nationally recruiting since Cal has been there. GMAFB about mediocre recruiting. Just about every school in the nation (besides Duke) would gladly trade recruiting results. Every year UK puts multiple players in the league, so it isn't a talent issue. If you think recruiting is the issue, you need to reevaluate.
It is not at all controversial to say Calipari has dropped off the past 5 seasons. The numbers bear it out.
His first 5 were lights out. The past 5 have been only decent and are held up tremendously by the first 5 years.
His first 5 were lights out. The past 5 have been only decent and are held up tremendously by the first 5 years.
The landscape of college basketball has changed so much since Cal signed on. I think the shoe companies pushing players to certain schools fiasco needs to be considered when evaluating the past 5 years. It’s indisputable that a significant portion of Cal’s success has depended on having elite newcomers each season. Recently, we’ve learned that a lot of these elite targets that chose other schools were expecting cash incentives from the school they signed with. Cal knows that both he and UK are put under a microscope, so steering clear of those players was necessary for the greater good of the program.
That being said, my main concern now is having guys leave prematurely. In the first 5 years we had guys like Patterson, Lamb, Jones, WCS, and the Twins return to school despite having a decent projection in the draft. Now it seems like we have players enter the draft if they see their name pop up as the 48th pick on just one of the hundreds of mock drafts out there. This is where I take issue with Cal. I understand wanting your players to be successful, but pushing players out the door when they have a first round grade at the expense of the program is unacceptable. Guys like Skal, Wenyen, Hami, Vando, and Keldon could all improve their draft stock significantly by returning. I think this offseason and the next will be extremely telling about the true trajectory of Cal’s tenure at UK.
That being said, my main concern now is having guys leave prematurely. In the first 5 years we had guys like Patterson, Lamb, Jones, WCS, and the Twins return to school despite having a decent projection in the draft. Now it seems like we have players enter the draft if they see their name pop up as the 48th pick on just one of the hundreds of mock drafts out there. This is where I take issue with Cal. I understand wanting your players to be successful, but pushing players out the door when they have a first round grade at the expense of the program is unacceptable. Guys like Skal, Wenyen, Hami, Vando, and Keldon could all improve their draft stock significantly by returning. I think this offseason and the next will be extremely telling about the true trajectory of Cal’s tenure at UK.
Both Tubby and Cal have completed 10 full seasons as the Kentucky coach, so it’s interesting that you chose to compare Tubby’s 6th through 9th seasons to Cal’s 7th through 10th seasons.
If you want to accurately compare them, you should’ve compared them over similar periods.
But then I guess that would show how Cal had much better results than Tubby. So I can see why you shifted Tubby’s timeframe to cherry pick one of his best teams but didn’t want do the same for Cal.
Bad comparison with Tubby and Cal. For one Cal came in when this program was on life support and was becoming embarrassing. Tubby took over for Pitino after we won it all in 96, was a runner up in 97 and won his only title with Pitino's players in 98. If we are looking at real facts that is a far cry from the same situation these 2 coaches started their tenure with the program and that's just the beginning of a bad comparison.
As far as this year goes it's not over and a lot of people forget Wiseman was coming until his AAU coach was hired by a major university. No one could see that coming with Tubby just getting started at Memphis. Wiseman openly told people he would be playing at UK until Penny came to Memphis. That was a big blow late and Cal had to play catchup with other recruits that other schools had been locked in with for a while. That situation put Cal in scramble mode.
As far as this year goes it's not over and a lot of people forget Wiseman was coming until his AAU coach was hired by a major university. No one could see that coming with Tubby just getting started at Memphis. Wiseman openly told people he would be playing at UK until Penny came to Memphis. That was a big blow late and Cal had to play catchup with other recruits that other schools had been locked in with for a while. That situation put Cal in scramble mode.
Kids arent as good anymore either. The recruiting landscape is drying up every passing year. Less are working on their game and more on their IG/Fortnite skills. If you look at our teams they visibly look so much younger too. These are young boys not men so no wonder they keep laying eggs.
UK is getting ripped off Cal is starting to get to comfortable in the job and it's showing
Tubby from 98-03. Very good with 1 natty. From 04-09 not good, average at best, refused to change anything
Cal 2010-2015. Exceptional, multiple FF with 1 natty. 2016-2019, average. Refusing to change anything. This year is unknown, but going out in sweet 16 will be Tubby 2.0
Tubby’s last two years were bad and things were only trending worse with his crappy recruiting. That’s why he left because everyone saw the writing on the wall including him.
Comparing him to Cal is utter nonsense because the bottom isn’t dropping out of the program like so many loons on here act like. Even if this years team doesn’t make a run next year is looking to be a stacked team. But for whatever reason any season without a title or a FF is treated as a total failure and an indictment on Cal.
Two out of our last three years were 30 win seasons. We finished one year ranked 4th in the nation by Kenpom and the other ranked 8th in the nation by Kenpom. Both were legitimate title contenders that made it to the elite 8.
It sucks that they didn’t make it further, but that’s still far better than average.
And Tubby didn’t coach here in 2009. Or 2008 for that matter. Might want to go back and review our past seasons because it doesn’t appear you have your facts straight.
Cal's worst stretch is equivalent with Tubby's best stretch...if that says anything.
-2015-16 We replaced the greatest roster ever assembled and lost 2nd round
-2016-17 We had the 2nd best team in the country and lost to the champs on a last 2nd shot...can't really say that was a bad year.
-2017-18 We had a team of all freshman....but we had 2 scholarship players out for the year and 1 was kicked off the team. They had 8 healthy scholarship players....and PJ had dang broken hand that kept him from hitting free throws.
-2018-19 Lost in Over-time of the elite 8....not a good loss but Cal can't make his team hit shots
So we've had a team that could win a title 2 of the last 4 years. 3 of the last 4 we won the SEC tournament title.
2 Elite 8's, 1 Sweet 16, and 1 R32 appearance. THE EXACT SAME FINISHES AS DUKE who has had wayyyyyy more talent. We've done the same with less....does that mean Cal can do more with less that uhm...Coach K???
UNC has a runner-up and a national title in that span? But this year they aren't even gonna make the tournament.
-2015-16 We replaced the greatest roster ever assembled and lost 2nd round
-2016-17 We had the 2nd best team in the country and lost to the champs on a last 2nd shot...can't really say that was a bad year.
-2017-18 We had a team of all freshman....but we had 2 scholarship players out for the year and 1 was kicked off the team. They had 8 healthy scholarship players....and PJ had dang broken hand that kept him from hitting free throws.
-2018-19 Lost in Over-time of the elite 8....not a good loss but Cal can't make his team hit shots
So we've had a team that could win a title 2 of the last 4 years. 3 of the last 4 we won the SEC tournament title.
2 Elite 8's, 1 Sweet 16, and 1 R32 appearance. THE EXACT SAME FINISHES AS DUKE who has had wayyyyyy more talent. We've done the same with less....does that mean Cal can do more with less that uhm...Coach K???
UNC has a runner-up and a national title in that span? But this year they aren't even gonna make the tournament.
He also lost in the round of 32 as the NUMBER 1 OVERALL seed in the NCAA Tournament.
Tubby
1998 National Title
1999 Elite 8
2000 Round of 32
2001 Sweet 16
2002 Sweet 16
2003 Elite 8
2004 Round of 32
2005 Elite 8
2006 Round of 32
2007 Round of 32
Finishes
1 National Title
3 Elite 8
2 Sweet 16's
4 Round of 32
Calipari
2010 Elite 8
2011 Final 4
2012 National Title
2013 NIT
2014 Runner-Up
2015 Final 4
2016 Round of 32
2017 Elite 8
2018 Sweet 16
2019 Elite 8
Finishes
1 National title
1 Runner-up
2 Final 4
3 Elite 8
1 Sweet 16
1 Round of 32
1 NIT
Cal has made it past the first weekend 8 of the 10 years he's been the coach here....
Also it's not tubby like at all,
As Cal's slump (which still had two great years) is equal to tubby's 7 middle years.
Tubby's slump is his last two years. Which doesn't compare at all to Cal's last 4 years.
Smh. If you take Coach K's best years, and all of sudden he looks decent too.
As Cal's slump (which still had two great years) is equal to tubby's 7 middle years.
Tubby's slump is his last two years. Which doesn't compare at all to Cal's last 4 years.
Smh. If you take Coach K's best years, and all of sudden he looks decent too.
So Elite 8s are now the new bar? I thought Final Fours and the last weekend were what UK fans wanted??
Soon we'll be like Gonzaga and IU - ecstatic for making so many S16s - unless Calipari and his staff can turn this around and have a couple of 2010-2015-type years.
I'm not much of a "what if" kind of guy, but what if we're still having this same talk and the data of the last 4-5 years in the next 2-3 years? What if Cal ends up the same as Tubby in these 7 years? Then what will you say?
Calipari and UK is definitely trending down. I'm hopeful and somewhat confident that he'll whip us back into the right direction, but the past few years - and now this year - are troubling, especially if we look like this next year and the year after (that would be 7 years = to Tubby's mediocre 7).
Then move on.
You do realize next year the recruiting is already way better than last 4 years right?
If you going to add IF, then what if Cal gets Banchero or Kuminga to join our roster next year? That's Cal's best class...
If you start comparing Cal's worst years to tubby's normal years, then no ****...it compares. Even Coach K would compare to tubby. Tubby would be better than Coach wright... Izzo and self could only dream of tubby's performance...
Also, tubby and UK went separate ways because after the 7 normal years of tubby, he crap the bed last two years.
Anyone that tries to argue this simply has their heads too far up our coach's butt to see how clearly-obvious it is that Calipari is in a tough run. Calipari needs to figure this out and turn us around. No idea what the hell has happened to him and his staff since that Wisconsin loss, but it's clear that on that day, something changed, and not for the better.
Did you miss the whole FBI stories?
Ask yourself how it's possible for a guy who is littered with NBA star can't get top 10 recruits...
I wouldn't say we're "trending down" and we're certainly not "in a downward spiral." The only difference between teams in 2011/2014 and teams in 2017/2019 is a couple shots falling or not falling in a game in March. The former two struggled just as much, or more, than the latter two but then the latter two lost down to the wire regional finals where the former two won them. We're talking about one or two bounces in a single game as the only difference between those teams. We haven't had a team like 2010, 2012, or 2015, sure - because we haven't had a Wall/Davis/KAT talent (and the last one ranked like them, Skal, was a bust). This year, we just ended up with an overrated crop of freshmen. Outside of Maxey none of them are ready to contribute at a high level yet.
We have a top 5 recruit coming in next year, and we should have several guys returning. It's definitely looking like EJ has no shot at the pros yet but he's improved a little. He could have a Nick-like transformation as a junior. Lot of people here had given up on Nick last year. Let's not hit the panic button yet.
We have a top 5 recruit coming in next year, and we should have several guys returning. It's definitely looking like EJ has no shot at the pros yet but he's improved a little. He could have a Nick-like transformation as a junior. Lot of people here had given up on Nick last year. Let's not hit the panic button yet.
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